Bill Parcells and Tom Landry are legendary in NFL circles, the fire and ice of the coaching profession.
Everson Walls has a perspective few can offer. He played for both men.
"Both are tough coaches,'' Walls said. "They didn't believe in giving you a break. But Parcells would actually talk to you as a person. He was like Jackie Gleason or someone, saying 'Hey kid.'
"He didn't look at you, at least at me, like Tom did. Every time I talked to Tom he was like, 'oh, what is it now?'"
Walls pauses for a second to smile.
"Of course, I can't blame Tom,'' Walls added.
It doesn't stop there. Walls played for Eddie Robinson at Grambling. New England coach Bill Belichick was his defensive coordinator with the New York Giants. The cornerback then followed Belichick to Cleveland where he played under defensive coordinator Nick Saban, who is now racking up national titles at Alabama.
It's hard to imagine any athlete has played for a list of coaches more successful than this one. He also played one year for Jimmy Johnson before the coach ended Walls' career with the Cowboys.
Johnson is the only coach Walls refuses to discuss.
No problem. He has plenty to say about the other five.
Eddie Robinson
The first time he met Robinson was memorable.
"The look in his eyes was so piercing,'' Walls said. "I didn't see age. I saw knowledge, wisdom and experience.
"It's hard to quantify in words, the way he looked and talked. It was like talking to an articulate preacher. He knew the exact word for the exact moment. His articulation changed my life. I do public speaking now because of him.''
Practices were intense. Robinson would call the offense. When the defense would frustrate him, it was a good day.
"When it came to Coach Rob, he made me feel pride as a person, and that's what made me a better player,'' Walls said. "It was bigger than football. That was just the instrument.
"He always said, 'it's about how you represent yourself as American, not as a black American.' You could see that in how he carried himself. He was the president of the College Coaches Association. He was a black man in predominantly white world and they revered him.
"He made me understand words can be very powerful in a positive way if you're good at it.''
Tom Landry
Their relationship was complicated.
"Yeah, Landry,'' Walls said. "Landry is tough, man. He's a guy I idolized. I always wanted that recognition from him, wanted him to say my name in a positive light.
"I really didn't get much of that.''
Despite the emotional distance between the two, Walls talks about how Landry smart Landry was and his knowledge of the game. The disconnect between the two had to do with personality and affirmation withheld, not football.
"I always wanted admiration and respect,'' Walls said. "I got respect.''
Bill Parcells
Walls isn't naïve. He knows Parcells rubbed a lot of players the wrong way. But he considered him a breath of fresh air after Landry's more reserved demeanor.
"He was too funny,'' Walls said. "The jokes. I wasn't with him long enough to get sick of him.
"He would sit in the steam room with us. He would cuss you out. He'd talk trash to his players on the field.
"He fostered an atmosphere of you're our guy. No matter what, you're our guy, and once you're our guy you're going to be our guy forever.''
Bill Belichick
Walls was struck by how inclusive Belichick was with the players in putting together a game plan.
"We were included,'' Walls said. "If you have something better, show me. If you could show him a better way, he'd be like cool, that looks good.''
When Belichick became the head coach in Cleveland he called Walls to tell him he had a job. It was the only time in the player's career he didn't have to go through a tryout.
Walls knew from his time in New York that Belichick's understanding of the game would allow him to be head coach. His question was whether or not he would be too tedious to communicate with players and media on a daily basis.
"When all is said and done, Parcells needed Belichick, as we can see,'' Walls said. "Belichick didn't need Parcells. That's a revelation that totally blew me away.''
Nick Saban
Walls and Saban share an unusual moment: both were fined by Belichick for being late to an October game in Cleveland when lake-effect snow created an unexpected white out.
Did he ever envision Saban would enjoy the success he has as a head coach?
"Nick was the same as Bill,'' Walls said. "I could see him as a head coach, but I thought he was too abrasive. Bill was not abrasive. He was aloof.
"But Nick was totally intense. I didn't think his heart could take it.''
Catch David Moore and co-host Robert Wilonsky on The Ticket (KTCK-AM 1310 and 96.7 FM) on Intentional Grounding at 7 p.m. on Wednesday.
Twitter: @DavidMooreDMN
NFL interception leaders
*Hall of Famer
Source: Pro Football Reference